Welcome to another episode of the Hope Athletics Orange and Blue Podcast. My name is Alan Babbitt, Sports Information Director here at Hope College, where we believe intercollegiate sport is a powerful vehicle for education and personal development. The mission of Hope Athletics is to promote and provide programs defined by academic success, competitive excellence, and transformational experiences. Monthly conversations with members of the Orange and Blue family spotlight their experiences with the Hope Athletics mission. This week is a special week as it is Division III week here across the country. We certainly have a lot to celebrate with Division III and the model it provides for Hope College athletics. I have two esteemed guests and examples of the best of Hope College with me today: our most recent national champions, swimmer Greta Gidley and track sprinter Sara Schermerhorn. Welcome to the Orange and Blue podcast, ladies.
Thanks for having me.
We'll start with a thrilling month of March for both of you. I'll start with you, Sara, because you raced first, winning the national title in the 400 meters. You've been knocking on the door, getting into the finals several times. What did it mean for you to break through and to bring that national championship trophy back to Hope College?
It was such an amazing feeling. It felt like it has been a long time coming. Each time I've gone to nationals, I haven't been able to walk away feeling great about my performance. To finally walk away with a win is such an amazing feeling.
You won by four one-hundredths of a second, which is probably as close as anyone could win a race by a few hundredths of a second. Then you had the unique challenge of racing first and having to wait and watch another heat. Take me through that time—first, winning by that close of a margin with the runner from Plattsburgh State. What was going through your mind in that race and in that moment?
I could feel her coming up in the last 50 meters, and I was trying to hold on as hard as I could. Racing the day before, I started running out of gas. At first, I thought she got me at the line, so it was a nice surprise to see my name up in front. The number one seed going into finals was in heat two, so waiting around for that was the longest four minutes of my life. Once I saw her time and it settled in that I won, it was such an amazing feeling.
I remember watching that and thinking the same thing. I said, "Hold on, she's a taller runner, she just got that longer stride, which can be a plus and a minus." I noticed you leaned with your chest. When it comes to track and field, is it the chest that determines the winner? Because it looked almost like her head might have been ahead of you.
Yes, I believe it is the chest.
Is that something you were consciously thinking about, or were you just trying to run full bore?
I was just trying to get to the line as fast as possible.
When I saw your reaction on the video, when you realized you won and your arms raised—you were right there with Coach Bartolazzi—as you've reflected on this since then, what have you thought about your journey to become a national champion?
I'm just really grateful for my entire experience at Hope. I have grown so much as a runner here, improved so much since high school. My senior year, I feel like I've been on an upward trajectory. I'm really thankful for my time at Hope and all of my coaches here.
Greta, similarly, you were knocking on the door in the 200 individual medley: national runner-up twice, and I think fourth place once as well. Take me through the feeling when you finally won that race.
I think for me it was a huge sigh of relief. I even told my mom I was lucky that my most important or biggest day of nationals was the first day. After that day, I kind of went to the rest of the championships thinking whatever happens now happens. I got what I came here for. I have always known that I was capable of that, and in years past, I felt like every year I just came up a little bit short. Last year, I had a lot of health complications and struggles and really did not have the meet that I wanted to. This year, I went into it a lot more free. Instead of trying to win or trying to prove something to someone, I was just having a whole lot of fun—more fun than I've ever had in a meet—and really enjoying my last meet, knowing what I was capable of and sticking to my own plan. That really just made it so much sweeter to win and do it on my own terms and in my own way.
The individual medley is unique because it requires four strokes. You can't just be fast in one. You have breaststroke, backstroke, butterfly, and freestyle. What is it about the IM that suits you?
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Being strong in all four strokes definitely is helpful. I think something I've learned to get a lot better at in the IM is trusting my own race plan and not worrying too much about other people around me. I used to think if I wasn't out first, then I wasn't going to win. If you watch my race from nationals this year, that definitely was not the case. I was almost last, actually, at halfway. But I knew that I had trained to be able to take it out pretty much as slow as I possibly could and come back really, really strong. You really have to trust yourself and not let what other people are doing get in your head or make you second-guess your own race plan. I knew my breaststroke, as it's gotten a lot stronger over the last year, was going to be really strong for that third 50. Then, being able to turn at the wall for the last 50, I didn't see anyone around me, but I knew that the 50 before a lot of people were in front of me, so I didn't really trust what I was seeing. I just had to close my eyes and hope that what I was seeing was real and that I was going to touch the wall first.
I imagine, similarly, Sara, it's hard not to think about the competition because there were some exceptional swimmers there as well. Is that something that just experience brings you to—to say, "Hey, everybody's going to be fast, so I can't be focused on that?"
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Yes, I think in the IM especially, I have to trust that what I'm doing is going to be best for myself, even if it's not the same as what other people are doing. I knew I had seen what some of the other girls had done in prelims, and so I knew that their first hundred was going to be significantly faster than mine, but I also knew that I had ended up faster than them, and it was going to be okay. I just had to trust my race plan. But it is hard not to panic a little bit when you can see almost everyone in the field ahead of you about halfway through the race, yeah.
Sara, when did you fall in love with being a track runner?
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Growing up, I was involved in a lot of different sports. I did soccer for a long time, and then all four years of high school, I did volleyball, basketball, and track. I would say my greatest strength in other sports was my speed. In soccer, I was fast, but I had zero ball skills. Then I realized track is obviously about speed. When I got to college, I purely focused on track, and I feel like that's when I was really able to take off and improve.
What is it about the 400 meters, especially—because you run the 60 meters and the 200 meters indoors, 100 outdoors, and 200 as well—that you particularly seem to thrive in?
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I would say the 400 takes a lot of strength. It's a hard race, especially the last 200, which, if you watched my race, I guess I need to work on that. But I think it's a unique race where you can be a short sprinter or a mid-distance runner, and they all meet in the 400 realm. It's just a fun race; it hurts, but it's a fun race.
I imagine you specifically went out maybe harder, faster than you've gone before in a 400, knowing the makeup of the field, or I know we talked about that after the meet.
Yes, in my mind, especially with the indoor 400, after the first lap, you're in your lanes. Then on the second lap, everyone cuts in, and after that cut-in, it's really hard to pass people. If you try to pass on the curb, you're just running extra. So that front pole position is really important. That was my goal: to be in the pole position after the first lap, and then hold on. I guess it worked out—I almost didn't—but I'm glad it worked out.
You grew up in the Traverse City area, I should mention. Just talk about the impact where you grew up and the people around you there that helped you find a passion, obviously track and field, but other sports as well.
I am very grateful for my experience at Traverse City West is where I went to high school. The ability to grow up as a multi-sport athlete, which is becoming rare these days, helped develop my athleticism, develop my speed, and I feel helped me stay away from injuries. If I did not grow up playing soccer, basketball, and volleyball, I don't think I would be where I am today, so I'm very grateful for all those coaches.
Greta, when did jumping in the pool competitively make you say, "Yeah, I want to do this?"
Greta Gidley
I started competitive swimming the summer I turned five. My birthday's in May, and I have two other siblings. I had seen them swim every summer, and I begged my mom every year, "Please can I swim? Please? Can I swim?" You had to be five, so the summer I turned five, they finally let me join the team, and immediately, I was in love with it. I played other sports growing up, but swimming always was my number one priority, and I always came back to that. In Eastside, we have a lot of summer swim clubs, which everyone who plays any sport year-round, they swim in the summer. That's just what you do, and that really helped me grow up with a very healthy relationship with swimming because it's so much fun. You eat as much sugar as you possibly can, and then you swim the shortest races ever. There are pictures of me as a kid munching on a hamburger during the meet in my cap and goggles, but that really helped it stay fun for me, and so I've always really enjoyed competing and being on a team and the close-knit team community, family feeling. As I grew up, I was always on smaller club teams, and I really loved the feeling of knowing all of my teammates. That's not always the case; there are some teams, especially on the East Side, that are huge, where you don't even know the people that are on your team, but my team was very small and family-oriented. My coaches felt like family, my teammates felt like family, and that always encouraged me to keep moving on and having fun with the sport.
Obviously, you both came here to Hope College. Sara, talk about your teammates. I know you had two coaches, Coach Kevin Cole and then Jordan Bartolazzi now. Talk about the experience and the teammates and how they've helped you grow and get the best out of yourself in the classroom and athletically.
I definitely would not be where I am today without such amazing teammates. When I was an underclassman, I saw amazing leadership from the seniors that year, like Grace Barron's, Julie Timperman, Helen Dodge, Aaron Moran, Alex Daniels, Josh Ennin. I could go on forever and ever, but showing up to practice every day—a lot of people wonder how running is fun. I say, "No, it is fun," when you're with your teammates and people who make it fun, and you push each other and you're just working hard. You are just helping everyone get better. So, I'm so grateful for the teammates I've had over these last four years.
I would say, very similarly, you guys have a good balance of competing and doing well in the classroom, and then obviously enjoying life. How have you both, in track and field, tried to find that balance to get the most out of your experience and not be singularly focused?
Well, one, it's really nice that most of our meets are on the weekend, so we're not missing a lot of school during the week. Our coaches are very understanding that academics come first. Honestly, having a schedule of practice every day helps me be in a routine, knowing, "All right, this is my practice time, this is homework time." I like the structure that doing a college sport gives you a lot.
For you, Greta, you alluded a little bit, but talk more about your teammates and the coaches here and how they've helped you get the most out of your experience here at Hope.
My teammates and coaches have been amazing. I've spoken on this before, but I came from going to the University of Michigan my freshman year and had a really poor experience with coaches and a team atmosphere that just wasn't healthy. Coming into Hope, all of my coaches and teammates have been super understanding and supportive. Tabor took the time to go to breakfast with me, hear all about my negative experiences, hear about what works for me, and how he can be most helpful to me. That was a very pivotal moment in my life to be able to trust him and know that he had my best interests at heart, whether that was swimming or otherwise. I've also had some really, really amazing teammates and role models. My best friend, Sarah Kraus, is one of the best role models ever. She also was an IM-er, but we had a very interesting relationship and dynamic where my best two strokes of that 200 IM and her best two strokes were opposite. I think that helped both of us to be able to train together and know that when I was going to be weak, she was going to be strong. And when she was going to be weak, I was going to be strong. We helped to push each other. She was a really great support person for me because she understood. We were in the same boat a lot of the time, and so we really understood each other and supported each other like no other. She was able to come to the meet this last weekend and see me compete for the last time. Hope has been such a great place for me to form those relationships with friends and mentors and coaches who care about how I do in the pool, but also care about who I am as a person and the person I'm growing up to be and who I'm becoming.
It's been a neat tradition. You guys have each presented each other with MVP trophies. I'm trying to remember, correct me, but I think she did it first, and then you returned the favor. Just talk about that. It was a pretty cool and emotional moment for you guys to have that experience. And I think she came back this year? She did, yeah. She wanted to do it this year, so.
When she first got MVP, it was my first year here. She got it her freshman year, and Emma Schaefer had presented it to her, and I know that that was something that meant a lot to her. Then she got it again her sophomore year, and then my junior year. She allegedly asked Tabor in the fall if she could give it to me when I was going to win it. So she knew before I did that that would be something that happened, but then it led the way for some pretty special things to happen. She gave it to me my junior year. Last year, her senior year, I gave it back to her, and then this year, for my fifth year, she came back and was able to come on deck and present it to me for my fifth year. It's been such a fun tradition, and we really are best friends. She's going to be the maid of honor in my wedding in a few months, and she's such a transformative person for me, supporting each other genuinely without any competitiveness there. We're both so happy for each other and what we've been able to do.
The swimming and diving schedule is unique, with both morning and afternoon practices throughout your season. How have you and your teammates found the balance to manage the demands of academics, social life, and athletics?
I think with our team specifically, swimmers often have a reputation for being close-knit and are always together. If you walk into Phelps, there's always a swimmer table, and there are always people there. We do a really good job of integrating friendship and hanging out time into everything else we do. If you come into a practice, whether it's 5 a.m. or 5 p.m., we're always laughing together and talking and hanging out. We hang out during meal times at Phelps, and for the last two years, we've had a reserved study room in Martha Miller every single night at a certain time where people on the team just go and study and hang out in that room. I think it helps us encourage good and healthy habits together, but it also helps us deepen our friendships when we know what someone's studying for, what tests they have coming up, what events they're working towards, or what their goals are in swimming. All those things coexist to help us become a closer-knit team.
I'd be remiss not to bring this up—March has been Athletic Training Month. Talk about the athletic trainers here; sometimes they're unheralded heroes for getting you out there to compete. I'll start with you, Sara. Talk about your experience with our athletic training staff and how they help you and your team.
The athletic training staff here is absolutely amazing. When we go to Wartburg for some meets, someone has come up to me because I'm wearing my Hope stuff and said Tim Coburn is the best trainer they've ever seen because he used to work there. So, I've worked with Ashley Orr, Tim Coburn, and now Annie is our athletic trainer, and Tanya. They're all amazing, so willing to help. I haven't had a major problem, so sometimes I feel bad just coming in for recovery stuff, but they do a great job of making sure you feel ready and giving you anything you need. I'm very grateful for their work, and they're great at their job.
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How much stress does that take off? Because I imagine whether you're dealing with "my hamstring is a little tight," you're worried about not wanting it to grow into something bigger. How much pressure does that take off, knowing you have somebody there to say, "Okay, this is what we need to do," and help you get back to 100%?
The mental aspect helps me so much. Just a scrape or an ice bath, and I'm like, "All right, I feel fresh. I feel ready." I can notice a difference between when I don't do that and when I do, and it's great.
For you, Greta, maybe diving is, but swimming isn't really a contact sport. But there are still, I imagine, shoulders, hips, and all the different things. Just talk about your experience and how they've helped the swim and dive team be in peak form and health.
Our trainers help us a ton. Swimming is a sport that puts a lot of yardage on us. Someone always is having a shoulder problem, a hip problem, hip flexors, whatever it may be. For me personally, I have a chronic illness called POTS, Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome, which is a problem in the way my nervous system regulates and my blood flows. Frequently at meets, you'll see me laying on the ground, passed out or about to be passed out. Our trainers have been so amazing and so helpful. If you've seen me compete, especially in the 200 IM at a big meet, you've probably seen Eric behind my lane with some salt tablets, feeding them to me because that's what I need when I get out of the race. He will come behind my lane and before I even get out of the pool, he'll feed me a salt tablet. They're so understanding, and they know exactly what we need, and they're always working around their schedules. Our team is huge, so they're trying to get all of us in when they can and do their best to help us be our best. Even this spring, I ended up with a cyst in my knee somehow—I don't know how that happens—but I was in the training room with Mariah every single day trying new things to get it to stop hurting, and she was really amazing and understanding with me and persistent in trying to get this to go away. It did actually end up going away. She was amazing and got the pain to stop. So they're so awesome, and they deserve a medal for taking care of our whole team because we're always falling apart, but they're great.
We should talk a little bit about what you're studying. Sara, tell us about your major and what you hope to do with it post-graduation.
I am an Exercise Science major and a minor in Biology, and right now I've been planning on applying to PA school post-grad.
What is it about that career that gravitated to you as something you wanted to study and pursue?
I've always had an interest in healthcare. I first thought I could see myself as a PT. After shadowing some PAs, I became really interested in that profession.
For you, Greta, elementary education, right? Just tell me about that and how that drew you in.
I'm an Elementary Education major, pre-K through six. Honestly, it came to me randomly when I was still at Michigan. I was trying to figure out what I wanted to major in. I had no idea, no leaning towards anything. I remembered coaching summer club swimming when I was 16 and 17 and how much fun that was. I loved my favorite part about it was watching how much the kids would grow from year to year—from the end of one summer to the beginning of the next—how much they would grow and mature, and how cool that was. I would love to be a part of helping kids grow up and learn all these different things. As soon as I got to Hope, Hope's education program is amazing. I could not speak enough good things about it. You get into so many different classrooms, so many experiences, and being in classroom experiences from all different grade levels, from a bunch of different districts around the Holland area, different types of schools, really solidified my love for teaching.
To talk about the academic side. If you could share with me something else or a couple of things that you've done here at Hope—different activities involved—that have been impactful for you. Sara?
One that comes to mind is this past summer I went on a Seed Trip with Hope Athletics to Zambia. That is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, and it's so special that Hope athletes get opportunities like that. That was so much fun, and I learned so much about myself and made some great friendships during that.
That's unique because you have different sports, different athletes, so you get to know different people. Talk about that experience: you guys are in another country together and have to rely on each other even though you don't know each other right away.
You get to know each other really fast, and it makes it fun that you can then come back during the year and go and cheer on your new friends and their sporting activities. We went with a great group of people. I had some teammates there, but also met a lot of new people from different teams.
What are some of the things you did there as far as service in Zambia?
We ran a sports camp for the local kids. There was a volleyball station, basketball, handball, softball, and then other times we also walked into the towns and villages and looked at their water filters and their water systems that the Potters, who we were staying with, set up, which was really cool.
I was going to say the exact same thing. I went to Zambia in the summer of 2023, after my sophomore year, and it was such a transformational experience for me. It was truly so amazing. Hope Seed Trips are one of the reasons, actually, that I really wanted to come to Hope in the first place. When I was being recruited, I found out about them. Some of the swimmers at the time had just gone to Zambia. I was just super drawn to that for some reason. I loved my Seed Trip so much. I think it was such a great opportunity for us to be poured into and also to pour into other people and grow in our faith, to be uncomfortable in new experiences, and to help people. But I also think that I learned and grew way more from that experience than anything I could have ever given to anyone else. I actually went back to Zambia last summer for their Intensive Discipleship Program, and I'm going back again this summer for their Love Choma work trip with my fiancé after our wedding for our honeymoon. I've kept in really close contact with some of the people who live there and work there, especially Courtney Barnes, who's a Hope basketball alum. She's amazing; she's one of my closest friends. What they're doing there is truly so special, and to be able to have a community of Hope athletes that can go there and have that experience together really shows the heart of what Hope Athletics is about and how they prioritize transformational experiences and the lives of their athletes.
Not so long ago—five years for you, Greta, four years for Sara—you were a freshman walking into these doors for the first time, having decided on Hope. There's going to be somebody coming this fall who may be just a wide-eyed freshman, just like you. What advice would you give to them so they can be poured into and get the most out of their Hope College student-athlete experience?
I would say one thing is to do things with a purpose. It's easy to show up to practice every day and go through the motions and think, "All right, I want to go home. I have this exam tomorrow." But if you are intentional about the time you spend at your practice, that makes a world of a difference, and so is being intentional about making friends with your teammates. I feel like that's how I've been able to transform here. In high school, I was like, "Oh, track practice, time to hang out with my friends." But here in college, I've been really focused on improving myself, which I feel like is why I've been able to grow. Also, Hope gives you so many resources—tutoring, TAs, your advisors, your teammates, your coaches. If you reach out to people, there are so many people willing to help you and want to watch you succeed.
I think similar to that, let people support you and care about you. There are so many people here that really want the best for you, and they want to help make that happen. The amount of professors that I've had reach out to me while I'm away at meets, saying, "We saw how you did, you're doing amazing, what can we do to support you?" Coaches also care about what you're doing in the classroom; everyone cares about you as a person. So let those people care about and support you. Then, as you go through your Hope experience, start pouring that back into other people. Something that makes Hope very special is all of the people here and how much they truly care about who you are and who you're becoming. You will soon be a part of that. One of the greatest joys for me this year has been being really close with some of the freshmen on my team and being able to show them what this is all about and make this experience better for them. Take it all in while you're young, and then start giving it back to others.
Awesome. Well, good luck to you, Sara. You have one more season, the outdoor season, in full swing, aiming to get back to nationals in May. And then for you, Greta, good luck with your wedding and preparations for that. It's been a joy to talk with you today, and congratulations on your national championships, and we'll look forward to following you in the future.
Thank you. Thank you.
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