Alan Babbitt: Welcome to the Hope Athletics Orange and Blue Podcast. My name is Alan Babbitt, sports information director at Hope College. It's been my privilege, the past two years, to bring you this podcast where we meet with the different people that comprise the Hope Athletics family, whether administration, coaches, student athletes and alumni and catch up with them and what they're doing. It's my thrill this month of June with the 50th anniversary of the Title IX legislation to have with me Elly Douglass Jordan, Class of 2004 and former cross country and track and field runner. Elly, welcome to the Orange and Blue Podcast.
Elly Jordan: Thank you so much for having me.
Alan Babbitt: I thought of you when you came on campus this spring for our HOPEYs ceremony and were our latest recipient of the Hope for Humanity Award, which is presented to Hope College alumni athletes who have demonstrated Christian commitment and service to others in their careers and hope, and I remember the conversations that we had in the afternoon prior to the award ceremony and your journey, both at Hope and then after you've graduated at hope and. I couldn't help but think about Title IX and how that helped create opportunities for you to be where you are today and I guess first kind of a general question when you think about Title IX, what does it mean to you personally.
Elly Jordan: Title IX is such a simple piece of legislation really that embodies the principle that we shall not have discrimination on the basis of sex in education, which since I'm 40 it predates me about 10 years and sort of looking at what that has meant for my life is that I think it really is emblematic of what my particular cohort pen have faced in education, so many of the women that we stand on the backs of were the people that really pioneered for us. I was rarely the first woman to do a lot of things. I know there've been a lot of women that have gone before me doing being the person that got all the weird books and had to suffer all of the discrimination and it meant that I'm where at I came into being, and where I where I sort of felt the path was ready for me in many, many of the places that I chose to go, whether it was law school or athletic endeavors or the courtroom. I think it was sort of in a nascent stage, though, because certainly there's been times where my gender does not experience privilege has meant that I have felt significant discrimination. But I also acknowledge that I have had tremendous privilege in that and I'm white woman, and you know I present as straight so that's those things that have privileged me so Title IX really has meant that I had a right, at least on paper a right to experience, an education, free from discrimination on the basis of sex and the way that Title IX has begun to fully flourish in its 50 years. Hopefully, it will continue to complete that promise that it puts out there is something that has affected my life, maybe even more so because I am enthusiastically supporting those efforts to make Title IX truly mean something I've had the great privilege to work alongside and to have friends and loved ones touched by sexual assault on campus. For that to be something that is taken seriously and so that we no longer have the empty seat, that is should be occupied by the quarter of students who experienced sexual assault who end up having to leave their campuses all of that is the kind of thing that actually gets me up in the morning. That has impacted me quite a bit. I think it would be easy for me to take for granted a lot of the promise that Title IX has fulfilled, thus far, but far be it for me to set aside, to become lazy, right, to be to rest on my laurels and not continue to encourage that Title IX continues to fulfill its full promise.
Alan Babbitt: When did you realize hey I want to be a competitive runner. Was it in middle school or high school? When did you realize this is something I can do, I enjoy and I'm you know pretty good at and wanted to be something that from our conversation really running has been part of your entire life.
Elly Jordan: Running, being able to have access to team sports and full full access to that another piece of the Title IX promise that has been so meaningful to me. As a young person, I think I was inspired like Florence Griffith Joyner and other amazing athletes that I saw compete in Olympic competition, and I think I had parents and a mom who really was incredibly encouraging around all anything I wanted to do, but particularly around athletics and running. Very early on, I started to realize that athletics was something that not only was really fun and in an interesting and you know, perhaps I wasn't terrible at, but also that it was something that I found was really critical to helping me achieve the balance that I need to feel really good and all the things that I want to do. That sort of ability to get out all of the energy that builds up when you're doing cerebral things became really important to me. I think I probably remember very clearly watching the Olympics as a pretty young child and telling my mom that I wanted to run. We went to the park and did some races and had some fun. I have a really clear memory of that. Throughout high school, I was able to play basketball and volleyball and love those sports and those that the team community that it creates as well as the opportunity to really help regulate all of the emotions that you experience in your daily life. It has become one of the really core things for me and so that's I think I've ever since a young age I've known I wanted to participate in that throughout middle and high school, I had the opportunities, because of Title IX to really participate I think cross country and track, are some of the fields that were at the cutting edge of really full equality between male and female athletes, as far as what was offered. tThere were never that many fights about different seasons. We got to be alongside our male competitors and they didn't feel like we were sort of a special group and then being able to do it really in high school being mostly on a really good team and then not being horrible on that really good team gave me the sense that it would be really important for my emotional and physical well being to be part of the team at home if I was able, and that did prove to be a community that got me through some of the hardest moments in my life and really were you know continues to be some of my closest friends.
Alan Babbitt: What was it about those moments that helped you?
Elly Jordan: Oh for sure I think there's something and I, with all the sports that I've participated in the sense of doing something together, being you know we're not we're not in this alone sets up the stage for a real opportunity to build unity and cohesion and then with running sports, in particular, especially those longer the long runs when you're getting trained up give you lots of chances to talk things out right. I actually even got to know my husband by training for a marathon so I'm a big proponent of long runs to get to know somebody well because it's those opportunities, where you can really talk out what you know, what's troubling you, what's bothering you and ny being a person that helps get another colleague or friend through a long, hard run you learn the skill of supporting someone through their more difficult emotional experiences. The people that were there with me saying like hey you know don't give up keep we keep running hard are the same people that I call when motherhood gets hard at the same people that I call when it's just too much at work, and you know kind of talk them through their my squad. I think you build that you just like you flex your physical muscles in athletics you end up flexing those emotional muscles and build the skill of being that support person to someone.
Alan Babbitt: Your studies at Hope, you majored in social sciences. dDd you know when you came here that's what you wanted to do, or how did that journey come about and help you start to probably put into focus what you wanted to do post graduation.
Elly Jordan: I came into Hope pretty much centered on social work as a career. That was my mother's career and that was what I envisioned doing. What was great about Hope is it helps sort of kindle and perfect a passion that I have for writing. I soon realized that a career that had a lot of writing and talking would be something that would be sort of a good place for me. I didn't know coming out of Hope that I wanted to pursue the law in particular. But I did have a stronger sense that in addition to knowing exactly what my mother did I wanted to take those themes and and build on what she did as a social worker and take it into perhaps a slightly more macro angle, so I had, I still have a pretty strong heart for my social work colleagues. I feel that I bring a lot of that in but I been able to bring the other skills that I was able to learn, and my religion and international studies and political science majors into to bear in the law and use that those particularly Hope professors, as a general matter, don't let you slough off on good writing. They pushed me in a way that I think really did me a service when I got to law school.
Alan Babbitt: Being an athlete, how did that help you as far as managing studies. College, in particular, on its own is challenging in its own right and has a lot of demands and and times rewarding at times exhausting. HJow did that opportunity that you had to be a runner growing up to be a member of the team, how did that help you navigate that and to be able to accomplish what you wanted to accomplish each semester?
Elly Jordan: I think the two key pillars were really balance and time management so being able to have that sort of physical outlet for the different stressors and cerebral activity, you have going on, was a good balance. At the time, I felt like a little bit strange among my peers, I was working quite a bit too. I waited tables through Hope and worked quite a bit. I also worked on the grounds crew which was a great experience and one of the most foolhardy things I ever signed on for because I grew up on the east side of the state and so I didn't have any quite way to be prepared for the lake effect snow that was coming my way when I signed up to be on the grounds crew. But I also worked waiting tables so sometimes that meant that the time management was really quite extreme, where I was going from. Maybe shoveling snow at 430 in the morning to practice at seven when the track had early practices, hopefully rarely did those follow the same days, but sometimes they did, to classes all day. to practice after school after classes and then straight to work. There's little time for shenanigans that way. I think time management has become really critical. I learned while I was at Applebee's to keep things that I needed to study in my little waitress booklet so that I could pull things out and run through and try to memorize things. I would often burn the midnight oil as far as writing and stuff for knowledge. I needed to have a physical outlet. I train attorneys right now on how to manage the secondary trauma that comes when you're hearing difficult client stories all the time. One of the real pillars coming out of the social sciences is the need to have physical activity. and hard physical activity as part of your life. I know when things are out of whack when I'm not running and usually that's the thing that regulates me and it gave me sort of a built-in tool, a roadmap, to go back to when I needed some balance in my life.
Alan Babbitt: After you graduated from Hope your first stop was in El Salvador, where you worked as a missionary with the Share Foundation. Talk about that experience, what you learned and how that was another pillar for you.
Elly Jordan: That was really the practice of what I felt like I had picked up being at Hope. I had married my husband, just after undergrad was done and we, I think it was three weeks later, I had my first orientation and within a month, maybe a month and a half, we were in El Salvador, a country that we hadn't both lived in. I had spent some time in other parts of the world, but neither of us had ever been to Central America, and so it was brand new. Having the opportunity to be in solidarity with folks who are experiencing profound poverty and significant human rights abuses was really the culmination of what I felt like I'd been working towards and working with the Share Foundation that prioritizes accompaniment of people, as opposed to sort of coming in and being having a charitable model has shaped the way that I do pretty much everything else that's. I seek to accompany those I serve, and it really has influenced everything else I've done.
Alan Babbitt: Did that prompt you to consider law school then?
Elly Jordan: I had an opportunity, when I was at the Share Foundation to be in support of a group of people who were protesting the prior privatization of their water or water services, so they were really worried that the poor people in their Community weren't going to be able to afford water. They mounted a protest, a peaceful protest, and had been arrested and charged with counterterrorism. I had this opportunity to provide support from grassroots organizations in the US to write letters on their behalf. Some of these people were people that I knew as colleagues fairly well and I knew that they had no ill intent no terrorist intentions, and so it was really quite frightening to see them threatened with such serious outcomes for doing what they felt was the right thing. I remember very clearly, but we were all very concerned and stressed, and then. Once we were able to recruit a fairly good attorney to come in and make their case for them, a lot of my grassroots efforts, which were helpful, wouldn't have gotten the job done. They needed an attorney right away. That experience, a bit of a light bulb went off that lawyers help, a lawyer can really help and has a tremendous ability to to make change. At the same time, my husband and I were both sort of identifying that we would love: international human rights work. The work of an attorney does make sense in Michigan. There's a lot that I can do as an attorney that is human rights, the boring but important stuff that really impacts people's rights, human rights, that you do as an attorney every day, sometimes whether it's as simple as making sure that somebody has language access so that they can understand the proceedings against their perpetrator at s sexual assault trial, whether it's preparing today for an asylum interview, to help a person make the case that they've been persecuted. Those kinds of things really are human rights when the rubber meets the road, and I feel really honored to be able to do that and it wasn't until I had a chance to sort of see a lawyer in action that I felt like I really had that that sort of epiphany this is something I could do.
Alan Babbitt: You then got good experience as far as all sides of the law profession, as a clerk for the US Court of Appeals and then in private practice at Warner Norcross and Judd and then your work as a Michigan State's Law Immigration Clinic. Talk about your growth and how that prepared you for where you are toda.
Elly Jordan: Since we're talking to the Orange and Blue Podcast I kind of feel like I'm the thing that I really have to offer in all facets of life has sort of a bit of flexibility. When I was on the track team, for example, I tried lots of different events. I was a middle distance runner mostly, but I could run a longer distance event. I toyed with the heptathlon a little bit. I was pretty mediocre at a whole lot of things. My experience as a lawyer is that I really enjoy having a foot in kind of more macro things that end up affecting systemic change, I also really enjoy representing clients I like law that's good and complicated so immigration law is where it's at, but I also ended up learning and practicing a lot of different areas of state law, family law, different areas and the privilege of being able to serve as a clerk on the US Court of Appeals was really unmatched. I was one of the first clerks ever to come out of Michigan State to serve at the US Court of Appeals level so that was a tremendous honor and one that I always hoped to live up to and I'm indebted to Judge (Theodore) McKee for giving me that chance. I really enjoyed working for him every day. At this point, a lot of my work centers around appellate level advocacy and so it helps me be better for the people I serve each and every day.
Alan Babbitt: Now you're with Michigan Immigrant Rights Center and you lead a team that provides trauma informed legal services to refugee and immigrant children who experience, as you mentioned, unfortunately, persecution and human trafficking. I know for myself, as someone who would consider himself a privileged white male it's hard for me to put myself in those children's shoes and understand how they're feeling and how they've been through how to help them. For someone who, maybe just doesn't have the ability to understand, what would you want them to kind of hopefully here and and and have more empathy and and, in some way to be able to help those that are being mistreated and everything that unfortunately happens in the world sometimes today.
Elly Jordan: What a fantastic question. I think more than anything, just knowing that people are people. if you think it would be really hard for your kid to travel through several countries on the top of a freight train and then shoved into a very packed car and maybe stacked on top of other people and below other people in a very hot van and then brought up to a place where they don't speak the language and don't know what comes next then it's probably hard for these kids too. There's a deep human desire to be safe and free and able to meet your full potential and that doesn't change when you speak a different language or have a different skin color. if you forget that for a minute it's really easy to dehumanize people and dehumanization has always been the beginning of the end. of anything wherever proud of as a human race. When you see people in your communities learn about them, learn about where they come from and what they're what they're there for and how you can be a supportive person in that community and make sure that your heart is really open.
Alan Babbitt: I know there's been, you've mentioned a few of the people on your journey, that have poured their heart into you and to help you become the professional, mother and wife, that you are today. Who are some of the women, in the spirit of TItle IX, who really inspired you?
Elly Jordan: Tthe very first person that comes to mind is one of my very dearest friends Jeanette (Austin) Rupert is her name now, but she was a student at Hope with me and she has been providing she's a nurse now in Minnesota and she has she grew up three blocks away from where George Floyd was murdered. She has been the chaplain for the families that were affected by that event. She has been in the center of every event that has gone down for the months that have followed. She is just a person that also brings so much joy, even in the hard times, and has the capacity for joy and frivolity at certain moments, but also brings just this sense of peace and always seems to know just the right thing to say. I think that our connection was forged out of that time at Hope. Even though we're contemporaries, I feel that I look up to her, so much so she's the first person that came to mind, but so many so many women and so many people have really influenced me. And I think you know I think of a lot of some of my you know some of my Hope professors Dr. Annie Dandavti was a great professor when I was at hope she you know definitely encouraged me along the way, and helped me become who I am. There's definitely too many to mention, I think of certainly Professor Veronica Johnson who's at Michigan State continues to be one of my greatest mentors. Professor Renee Knake from Michigan state who has a fantastic book, though, for those interested in these topics called shortlisted about all the women who were shortlisted for the Supreme Court. Professor Jefferson is fantastic. Her name is now Renee Jefferson and she's also a trustee at Michigan State, but she is just a superior human being and has always been able to inspire me and is kind enough to shepherd me along when I have to sort things out a little bit.
Alan Babbitt: And lastly, also in the spirit of Title IX Now, I know oh obviously we're all we all have come from different experiences, but for a young lady or young girl might be just like you was 8, 9, or 10 years old and growing up, or even a teenager or even a student athlete coming out or even presently at Hope, wWhat advice would you give them about making the most out of their experience and finding their path and where they can make an impact and how they can enjoy life, whether it's.competitive running or study in S.T.E.M. or or law or whatever. What advice would you give to a young person that's starting their journey?
Elly Jordan: I have a 9 year old, it's a pretty easy question for me, I think about it all the time, we, the thing I say all that that I feel i make sure you do things that scare you: Do something almost every day that scares you just a little and pushes you outside your comfort zone. I remember finishing my first cross country race at Hope and my friend sort of draped around me and she was like we are college athletes. Do the thing that makes you feel like wow that's just a little beyond the comfort zone or that's that's more than I'm sure I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do that well. If you only do things that you know you're going to be able to do well and you're not gonna be happy over the long haul.
Alan Babbitt: Awesome. Thank you very much for the time today Elly. It's been a privilege to talk to you on the Orange and Blue podcast and good luck and continued blessings with your work. Unfortunately a lot of people are in need and we are grateful that you're pouring yourself into that. Thank you very much and enjoy this month of June, and the rest of the summer.
Elly Jordan: Completely my pleasure and Go Hope! Thank you so much.
