Alan Babbitt [00:00:05] Welcome to the second season of The Hope Athletics Orange Blue Podcast. We have a special guest, the new Hope College men's soccer coach John Conlin, Class of 97 and a decorated student athlete here at Hope who's had a wonderful high school career. He mow is rejoining the Flying Dutchmen. Welcome to the Orange and Blue podcast, John. 

John Conlon [00:00:30] Great to be here. Excited to be back at Hope and excited to be back where my coaching days began and where I grew as a young man. 

Alan Babbitt [00:00:40] We'll start with, before we get into your story and how you came to Hope in your life as a student athlete at hope and then your post or career. What does it mean to you to have this opportunity to lead the men's soccer program at Hope and a program that's very near and dear to your heart? 

John Conlon [00:00:59] Well, 93 to 97 I thought were amazing years for Hope soccer. Coach Smith brought in some, some pretty big time players during that time, and we had a goal of winning a national championship and when we went to the final 8 in 94. We were ranked in the top five in the country in 95 and 96. But more importantly, the second I set foot on Hope's campus in 93, I just felt like there is something different about the school and something different about the soccer program. The school, I said this in my interview last week, like people at the school, were really excited to see me. People seem to love the school. People were very genuine and they weren't selling me anything. They were just happy with where they were and that made me fall in love with the school. And then the soccer program felt like a family from day one. The seniors welcomed me in. The seniors made me feel like I was a senior, even as a freshman. And so the atmosphere was exactly what I was looking for. It was the best four years of soccer. I had my career for sure. 

Alan Babbitt [00:02:19] Where did your love of soccer began? 

John Conlon [00:02:24] From my Dad. My grandparents are immigrants. My grandfather is off the boat from Ireland. My grandmother and on the other side are Polish and Irish. And so my grandfather Conlon in New York City, tried to get my dad to play soccer. But my dad wanted to play baseball and basketball just like every New York City kid, right? Dad grew up in Brooklyn. So my dad ends up out here, marries my mom. My dad's an attorney. My mom was a judge. And so at five years old or four years old, excuse me, there was this new soccer thing in Kalamazoo, Michigan, called AYSO.There was also Missle, which was a new program. And my parents had this rambunctious four year old kid who, to be honest with you, I probably never stopped moving my first four years and they're like, OK, we got to get him doing something or he's going to drive us crazy. So they put me into soccer, and my dad always tells a story that, like the first game I played, I got the ball and dribbled the length of the field and scored like 10 times. And then the parents were mad because I kept scoring and wasn't passing the ball. I don't know if Coach Smith would tell you I got better at passing the ball, but I definitely fell in love with the game right there. I also loved basketball. My dad was extremely passionate about basketball, but I realized that like 13, 14 years old, that even though basketball was one of my loves, that soccer was what I was meant to do. And I was lucky enough to play for Dieter Valk at Portage Northern German coach, legendary coach at Portage Northern, my freshman and sophomore year. And Dieter basically saw some things in me that really built me up as a person and player. And then Dieter retired and I went down to Culver Military Academy for my junior and senior year and played for another German coach, Jim Brugh. He was exactly like Dieter saw something in me that actually changed the way I played a little bit. And you know, from there, I ended up at Hope, which is a whole nother long story. You know, it's God's plan, if you will, because I had already verbally committed to Bowling Green and some things happened so I decommitted. Lee Schopp is from Carmel, Indiana, and his high school coach knew who I was and recommended that I at least go look at Hope and came up to Hope and fell in love with it right away honestly, like I immediately turned down every other school that was talking to me because I just knew. I knew when I walked on campus it was the right fit. But you know the one thing Coach Smith will tell this story, I think he called my school and Culver. You know, obviously everything is Yes, sir. No, sir. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. And so when I got on the phone and was saying, Yes, sir, no, sir, I think he was pretty impressed by that. Of course, we said that we were scared to death, to not say it. But when I came to campus, you know, I was a pretty confident young man and I told Coach Smith, Listen, if I'm coming here, I'm going to be an all-American. I'm going to be the MVP of the league and we're going to win a national championship. And that definitely, I think back on that now. And I think, wow, you know, who was this 18 year old kid back then? But, unfortunately, I didn't win the national championship. We got close to a couple of times, but that still eats at me today. And whenever I say I'm going to do something, I usually try to fulfill it. So that's where it started. And I've had other huge mentors along the way, too. That obviously led me to where I am now, but I loved coaching my whole life. My dad was a coach. He pointed out what the coaches did. And then the Hope soccer camps is where I really started coaching. 

Alan Babbitt [00:06:33] Having the kind of legendary coaches that you did through your high school and and I imagine even younger, but obviously the notes names from Portage Northern and Culver and then coming to hope, did you realize at the time that coaching was going to be something you were going to do and observing them? Or did that come later for you? 

John Conlon [00:06:55] I think back at it now, I don't think I realized then. I knew my dad was was doing something with me to create a leader because when I was like five, six, seven, eight years old, we would go to Western Michigan football. basketball games. And he was constantly pointing out like tactical adjustments, how the coaches dealt with their players. He got me around coaches all the time, like I started going to basketball camps all over the country. I went to five star basketball camp, which at that point was the best basketball camp in the country. Lou Carnesecca at St. John's. I went to his basketball camp. I went to Ray Meyer's basketball camp and I was actually up in Wisconsin but was the legendary DePaul coach, Joey Meyer, too. So my dad was always talking to me about coaches, how they do things. My dad loves sports and I don't know if that's just the way he was or is, but he definitely saw something in me that was, I think, molding me to be a coach. And then at 18, I started, you know, I had no money. I haven't worked in soccer camps and Coach Smith put me in charge of some groups and I realized, and this is really fun, empowering kids, you know, and it's really fun getting kids to do things that they don't believe they can do. So honestly, at 18, I realized right then that I loved coaching. And then at 19, I coached my first club team, 19 or 20, which Marcus Voss, who's a former Hope All-American, was the goalkeeper on. And there was my first team and actually Chad Carlson, who works at Hope, was on that team as well. So, you know, when you have players like Marcus Voss and Chad Carlson, it makes you look good as a coach. Both great great athletes and great people. And that was my first team, and I probably did every single thing wrong, but I had energy. And from there, we just kept progressing. I literally probably annoyed every coach in the country by calling them and picking their mind and asking them how they do things. And it's created some great friendships and relationships. But you know, the one thing I said when I interviewed at East Kentwood in 2000 was that the second I think I know it all is when I'm done coaching and I'm still learning, so I love where I am right now. 

Alan Babbitt [00:09:24] What is it about the sport itself that you really enjoy and find? Obviously, you had a lot of options. I know your grandfather's influence certainly was a part of it too, obviously, to stick with it and you're still competing now on the on the sideline versus on the field. What is it about the game that really grabs you and you like sharing that passion for soccer with young men and and young women as well? 

John Conlon [00:09:50] Well, I hope I hope Pete and Mitch and Brian, and those guys aren't listening to this because I have this argument with my friends who are basketball and football coaches all the time that soccer is the most complicated game in the world because it's the only game that's 11 v 11 free flowing, can't call a timeout, You can make tactical adjustments in the game. You can make some decisions that can influence the game, but ultimately it comes down to players. The substitutions are limited to a degree, depending on what level it's at, but it's free flowing. And so it's a game that the best team doesn't always win. I would say actually a lot of times the more organized team wins not the best team, or the team that makes the most out of their chances wins. But it's a cruel game and it's a game that you'll never master. I don't care who you are. I mean, if you just even look at how it's evolved since when I played at Hope in the early 90s, the game is so much more complicated it's faster. Decision making has to be faster. Athletes are better. Space on the field is less. The tactics are much better. The coaching is much better. It's a game that's continually evolving. And you know, obviously all sports do. But soccer is the one game that you will ultimately never master. Well, with the exception of golf, but that's another story. My golf game, at least. But it's a game that constantly challenges you, and you have to have pretty strong resolve if you're going to be a coach because it's going to break your heart. 

Alan Babbitt [00:11:36] Your time at Hope, how did that help you to become a coach and then also a teacher? A fifth grade teacher? What did you learn during your time as a student athlete? It help that prepared you for that part of your professional career? 

John Conlon [00:11:51]  Coach Smith was great with me. Everyone has different relationships with their coaches. But he saw, I think right away that maybe the leadership part had already been somewhat developed by my father. And so he empowered me. Even still remember this conversation my sophomore year going into my sophomore year, we said prior to the season, and he was actually asking my opinion on players and tactics and what we should be doing. And it was because he, you know, he, I think, saw that maybe I wanted to be a coach or someday was going to be a coach. And so he empowered that, and I learned a ton from that. Like, he really trusted me as a leader, trusted me as a player. I'm sure I drove him nuts at times because I was probably way too confident for a 19 20 year old kid. But I learned that you have to in this game, especially really trust your players and trust your leaders because if you don't, it's like teaching a 16 year old how to drive. If you don't trust them and you're grabbing the steering wheel, you're probably going to drive into an embankment. So you just hope that everything that you've taught them and empower them to do lead you on the straight and narrow. So I did learn a ton during that time that really grew me and also at the camps. Coach gave me some autonomy, and at first, you know, I was just energetic, didn't know a ton about coaching or teaching, by the way. Coaching is teaching. If anyone tells you any different. I think the best coaches I've been around are instructors first and coaches second. So he really started putting me in charge of big groups, even at like 19 or 20 years old. And you know, I always say this to my players like, you have to fail before you can succeed, and I'm sure I fail the time. I'm sure I made a ton of mistakes, but that is what drew me. And then also, you know, I'd be remiss to not mention Lee Schopp. I mean, I think Lee Schopp was probably one of the biggest influences on me, mainly because Lee was every bit the competitor I was and driven like a crazy man, like I was as an athlete. And so I was lucky enough to have Lee as an assistant three of the four years, and he really helped to mold me as a young coach, too. So it all started at home without question. 

Alan Babbitt [00:14:18] Then your time at Kentwood, you go there as a young coach and get an opportunity to mold the program and then I'm sure it is even maybe even hard for you to summarize kind of the memories that you have. Winning five state championships and just tremendous with the boys and tremendous success with the girls program as well. And now obviously coaching the girls with Byron Center and having success there, too, which you'll do this spring. How would you summarize your time at Kentwood and what that is as met with you that you're going to carry forward here at Hope? 

John Conlon [00:14:56] Kentwood was definitely the next step in my progression. I,still think back to Jock Ambrose hiring me and I was 23 years old, I didn't know what was up or what was down. Once again, I came in and told Jock\ we were going to be the first program to win a state championship from the west side of the state in the largest. I was, I don't know. I say stupid things, apparently, but I also told them we were going to be the best place to play high school soccer in the country. And I don't know, maybe I said those things because it holds myself to a high standard. But I still remember when I took over at Kentwood, they were at the bottom of the league with, you know, basically had one like two or three games on the girls side and the guys side. My first conditioning session, I told this in my interview. I had convinced my brother to come assist me from Portage Northern. He had been at the Portage Northern. Teams that were winning state championships are competing for state championships. They convinced him to come coach of me and the first conditioning session we had 10 guys in. All 10 threw up. And then the next conditioning session, the next day we had two guys. So my brother, Luke said to me, Hey, I think you're at the wrong school. And I said, No man, it'll take some time. Just give us some time. We just got to create a culture. In that first year, I learned a lot. I learned that people didn't think we were going to be good. So during my first game coaching, I still remember this referee said to me, Oh, you know, you're the new coach. I can't wait. Well, hey, I'm sorry, you guys will never be good. And then once again, arrogant young John Conlon says, Well, you don't know me very well. It did take a while, but five years later, actually, that referee came up to me and said, John, you know, I got to apologize for what I said to you five years ago. I know how hard you've worked to kind of build this and get guys to believe. And it's like, I am amazed at how your teams always create their own luck. And to me, that was like the highest compliment that I mean, it's probably one of the greatest compliments anyone's ever given me. And actually, that referee is a friend of mine to this day. But, it was not easy. I mean, we had to create confidence. We had to get guys to believe that when we started in camp, what I was practicing on the outfield of a baseball diamond. I couldn't even get on the field. I used to sneak out in the middle of the night and water the outfield the best baseball diamond, which drove my HR people nuts in Kentwood. But I had to do some things to get us to where we need to be. But really, I think ultimately I hired some good people around me who are extremely intelligent and loyal and cared deeply about the kids. And that's what made the difference. And you know, the one thing I learned at Portage Northern and this is one of my favorite stories. Dieter Valk came to a club game when I was in sixth grade and I didn't even know he knew who I was. But we are this tournament, and he had the captains of the Portage Northern Varsity team there, and he walked over and said, You're John Conlon, right? And I said, Yeah, and he said, this is Mike Mason and my son, Mike Valk and a couple of others, he said. And he said, gentlemen, this is the future of Portage Northern Soccer. And what I learned from that was he knew every kid in Portage, like he knew every kid from kindergarten. I was floored by that. Absolutely floored. And at that point, like he didn't have say another word to me, I would have done anything for that man. So I realized that I've got to get down in the elementary's. Figure out who the kids are and camp would get them excited. A little bit of shameless self-promotion. Every single thing we ever did. We handed out East Kentwood soccer shirts. We wanted every single kid in West Michigan wearing East Kentwood Soccer. And that was Forest Hills kids. That was Caledonia kids. That was Granville. That was everywhere. We wanted every person wearing East Kentwood soccer shirts. And we wanted to create this culture where kids want to play there. And that kid's in kindergarten and  grade wanted to grow up and play for East Kentwood, and my and my staff believed in that too. So, it's like anything, success breeds success, like we had to break through a glass ceiling to win the state championship. And I'll be honest. You know, coaches, I think sometimes we get a little too much credit. Obviously, we have to lead the ship, but players win the games. You know, I was blessed to have Mark and Dominic Barone. Joe Barone was their dad, an All-American at Calvin. But Mark and I really bought into what we were doing. They're great players and they believed and they led us to our first state championship. And then after that, it was, you know, I mean, it was all downhill. Like we we really didn't even have to drive the car. We were already on a roll. So yeah, I mean, there's a lot to it. Twenty two years, a lot of a lot of great stories. Kentwood is the most diverse high school in the state. I've got every type of kid. 40 percent of my team is Muslim, 40 percent. It's almost 60 percent speak a different language at home. We have kids that are from war torn nations. You know, obviously, Tarwo Konbloa played at Hope. He's from Liberia and the stories of the kids I had, you know, they empowered me every day. They made me want to coach. They made me want to make sure they graduated. They made me want to make sure that we were good so that they had something to believe in. And so, yeah. Unbelievable. Twenty two years, and it's really hard for me to leave. Don't get me wrong, I love Kentwood. I'm loyal to Kentwood, but it's good to be back home at home, for sure. 

Alan Babbitt [00:20:58] And imagine to with your success in Kentwood, I know there's been a fair amount of players that have gone on and played collegiately, but you've also had kids that end of the road as high school, and it's a great high school memory. That balance, I'd imagine that's rewarding itself because it's not just about getting a kid to the next level, it's having a kid having an enriching, experience being part of a team and being in improving their own game. 

John Conlon [00:21:25]  I said this the other day. I remember I said it too, but I think when I was a young coach like 23 to 27, 28, I didn't quite get it. Like, I understood coaching, I was learning coaching, but I didn't understand the impact coaches have on players. I just don't think I was thinking like that and I was so intense. I was a very competitive player. Coach Smith would probably tell you that I was the most competitive person he's ever been around with the exception of Lee. I can't stand losing, but I let that kind of dictate how I did things. And in the short term, I think if you're domineering and authoritarian, I think that's successful in the short term. But I think that dies really quickly. And in 2005, we had the best team in the state and we went into the state tournament, won the district, went into regionals, and this was like the team, I thought, this is going to be my first team to win it. And I remember telling the guys the only way we're losing is if there's no time on the clock, which I think now is still probably the stupidest comment I ever made, because that's exactly how we lost Andrew Gorehouse played for me. He graduated from Hope, played at home. He was hurt, but he was playing goalkeeper and he had hurt his leg. Really bad. But with 10 seconds left in the game, they served the ball into the box and the kid headed iit in when no time on the clock and we lost. And I cried, I mean, I cried. And unfortunately, I think I probably cried because we lost, not because my guys had lost, and that's just being vulnerable right now and being forthright. But I remember my dad coming up to me after the game and talking to me and saying, You know what? This is the best thing that could ever happen to you. He's like, You know, you are an extremely intense, driven individual. But you know, your players are playing like you are acting, which is really hot all the time, like running hot all the time. So as a player, you were calm, relaxed, never lost your cool. You need to be like that as a coach, and you need to care deeply about your kids and get them to buy in. And if you do that, you know, great things are going to happen. And my dad's a really smart man. He reads people really well and probably the best advice I ever got as a coach. And from then on, like I just changed my approach. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm still super competitive and push guys. But I studied guys like Tom Izzo, you know, I mean, I was a fiery guy, but his guys love him. Mike Krzyzewski is another one that I absolutely learned everything I could about the way he does things. Nick Saban, some of the great coaches I just studied, the way they did things and changed my mentality and changed the way I lived and died with every second of every day. And it's made all the difference. And I'll be honest, my greatest accomplishments are not championships. It's the guys who've graduated, the guys who have gone on and are successful, the guys who are having kids now. And that's what means the world to me that the friendships I have with them are everything. Some of my best friends are guys who play with, Mark and Dominic Barone are like sons to me. And that's what it's all about. I mean, you're not going to soccer's a cool game. If you're going to get caught up in always winning championships, you're not. You're going to have your heart broken a lot. 

Alan Babbitt [00:24:52] Now, I imagine you take that same approach here to Hope. What are your as you start putting together your plan for this program and putting your stamp on it? What do you want? What do you have for goals for this program and also not only competitive excellence but trying to transform lives at the collegiate level, too? 

John Conlon [00:25:15] The measurable goal, I mean, it's going to take a while. Listen, whenever new leadership comes in, there's a transition period. Guys have to buy into me. They have to understand my expectations, have to understand stylistically how we want to play like.Last year's team is, last year's team. We have a, different group of guys now have different recruits coming in. It's going to take a little bit. But what I've always said judge coaches on their third year, like if you look at Nick Saban at Alabama, you look at who Lou Holtz when he was at Notre Dame, like it's their third year where you can really see how dominant their program becomes. But my goal? Forget the measurable stuff like conference championships and national championships. Those are great. But my goal is to produce quality individuals. I mean, young men coming out of my program, I want them to be great fathers and doctors and teachers and leaders in their own right. Maybe someday one of them will follow me and take this role away from me. You know, I honestly, I've realized now in my life that empowering young people is probably the greatest thing I can do as a leader and coach and getting them to have self-confidence, getting them to believe in themselves. Getting them to believe they can do things they can't. You know, do without a coach that's way more important to me than the wins and losses, honestly. And I always know I've done a good job when after the season, the guys come up and give me a hug or if they come back later and they want to see me, or if they come back years later and want to see our team play. That's how I judge myself, I judge myself based on my relationships with them more than anything else, because, ultimately, sometimes you're going to lose in soccer. It is. It's the way it is. 

Alan Babbitt [00:27:14] What kind of style of soccer will you play? Obviously that it's a game, a complex game with probably a million different strategies for how to stick the goal in that and keep the other one out. What do you envision or as a matter of getting to know what you have first and forming that team when you are able to work out? 

John Conlon [00:27:33] Well, I think, you know, college is going to be a little different because I can actually recruit guys that kind of fit my personality and my style. High school, you deal with what you have, right? Like, you just deal with the kids, you have it and you have all different types. I can tell you that I hear coaches talk about formations all the time. Formations are only as good as the players in it, and they're only as good as the culture you create. So our culture when we play is we come after people. I mean, I am probably the most aggressive human being in the world when it comes to competitive athletics. I, as a person, can never sit back like if Coach Smith were to say to us, Hey, we're going to defend this whole game and stay in a shell. I was probably the one guy that would say, OK, coach. Yeah, we're not doing that today. And that probably is what drove him nuts. But we come after people and it doesn't matter what our talent level is, we're going to press, we're going to come after you in waves. We're going to be resilient. Stylistically, we keep the ball in the ground. We make teams chase. We love to keep the ball. The joke I always have is if you don't like to defend, then don't give the ball back. I've had plenty of guys that don't like to defend. I said, OK, well, then don't ever give the ball back, you know, if you don't, if you don't give the ball back and then you never have to defend. But we will definitely come after people. We will not sit back. We will respect everyone and fear no one. And also, you know, I fully believe and this is something I learned from Bill Belichick is we're going to believe in the next man up idea, like guys deep on our bench need to be ready. Like, if we get an injury, I fully expect the next guy to step in and be impactful. So that doesn't quite answer it because I have to see our personnel. But the guys I learned really quickly that I'm not somebody who is passive. 

Alan Babbitt [00:29:33] And lastly, I'd be remiss. It was a joy to meet your family, your wife, Kelly, and your three children when we took your pictures. You know, for the announcement. Just talk about them and kind of what your family means to you and how I know from talking to coaches that they didn't have a supportive family. They wouldn't be able to do what you know they do and all the odd hours and busy season. So just talk about your family and kind of how central they are in your life. 

John Conlon [00:30:06] Well, just to show you how important soccer's been in my life, I think every close friend I have somehow indirectly is related to soccer and my wife as well. She actually was a four year starter at Western Michigan, was their all time leader in starts at one point and I met her because she was coaching my sister at Portage Northern, you know, small world. And she was very supportive and is very supportive of my coaching progression. I think at times it makes marriage and relationships difficult when you're married to a coach because of our commitment level, right? But the fact that, listen, she was a highly accomplished athlete and played for, probably, well, the winningest coach in the history of Michigan, which is Tim Storch. So she knew the demands of the game and the demands of coaching. And so she's been amazing that way. Like, I mean, just supporting every single aspect of what I do, and she's a great coach in her own right. She actually built the Byron Center program up, and then all I did was kind of step in and make sure I didn't screw it up. It's been a great relationship and partnership in terms of that as well. My kids, you know, are very unique in their own ways. I think my son Brody is probably most like his mom. I got to coach him this year on my varsity team, and he had a great year as a freshman. He's extreme like his mom is very, very driven, pretty quiet for the most part, but fearless and and I think has a pretty good future ahead of him as a player. My son, Caleb, the second one is all Conlon. He will tell you how good he is at everything. So much like my brothers, it drives me nuts. He actually thinks that I never played the game and I was just some old dude, and he gives me a hard time all the time and everything, and I just laugh because I look at him and thinking, Man, he is definitely my bloodline. Without question, my brothers are one hundred percent like that. And my dad being a New Yorker is like that. And then my daughter is, the absolutely best human being I think I've ever been around sweet, loving, caring, very good athlete in her own right, but also has the biggest heart of any human being.I've been around.. Listen, coaching puts a stress on relationships and families, and I think every coach would tell you that. But it's my profession. It's what I've chosen is what I love, and I love that my family supports, supports me in it, and I love that they're all a part of it too, that that once again, it'd be really hollow if they weren't a part of it. I hope that answers that I'm sure that I'm one of them will be upset, I didn't talk more about them. That's the way they are. But probably Caleb will probably wants me to tell everyone he's the best player in the country, but that 

Alan Babbitt [00:33:18] That's out there. So that's good. We'll know. 

John Conlon [00:33:21] We'll see. We'll see. 

Alan Babbitt [00:33:23] We will let him prove it. Well, hey, it's been great to spend some time with you, and I know a busy time ahead. I know coaching in Byron Center and then getting to know your guys and working out with them and preparing the fall. We're looking forward to an exciting fall at Van Andel Soccer Stadium. 

John Conlon [00:33:39] Can I add one more thing? 

Alan Babbitt [00:33:41] Yes, absolutely. 

John Conlon [00:33:43] OK, so Jerry Yeagley is the winningest coach of all time, Divisionn I coach in Indiana. And when I was a young coach, I got to spend a lot of time around Jerry and I got a lot of stories about him. But what I noticed right away when I was around the Indiana guys is that if you played at Indiana, whether you were 70 or just graduated or currently there, there was like this brotherhood in this family and, you know, everyone was connected. If you see them at the National Convention, you know, the Indiana guys because they're all together and Hope has that same type of brotherhood on the guys soccer side. And I think the alumni maybe haven't been as involved recently and they will be brought back. They trust me when I say that all the guys that I played with and came after me are very passionate about Hope College and the guys before me as well and passionate about Hope Soccer, and we're going to embrace that. I'm going to get the guys in our program to understand how important that is. Because, when you leave here, I want you to feel like you can come back in twenty five years and still take pride in our program and pride in our school. And so I look forward to that piece, bringing the alumni back and really having a crazy atmosphere, especially when we play Calvin. 

Alan Babbitt [00:35:03] Certainly there is, as you know, I'm sure you've visited in my experience, There is nothing like a full house at Van Ander soccer Stadium, those Hope Calvin matches and some of the other matches we've had the the facility and just the atmosphere is just it's an amazing place and we're looking forward to having having those kind of games again and should be a lot of fun. 

John Conlon [00:35:28] We want to even take it to another level. We want to be like Cameron Indoor at Duke, where people just do not want to play at our stadium because of how loud and crazy the fans are and supportive they are. That's the goal, ultimately. 

Alan Babbitt [00:35:43] It could be a lot of fun. Wee look forward to the fall and good luck for the next few months and we'll see you on the sidelines soon. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Orange and Blue podcast, celebrating everything in Hope Athletics, as John can attest to. There are some amazing people, an amazing place here, and now we look forward to spotlighting it as often as we can.